The basic problem is legal illiteracy of the population

Interview with the chairman of Federation Natalia Kozhevina , published on site dialog.ua

What is corruption in Ukraine in your opinion - it, so to say, birthmarks and special signs is?

First of all corruption in Ukraine is a product of a transition period, the period of accumulation of the capital when those who has access to the budgetary funds, all questions solve through a knocking-out of money, first of all - from small business.

Our trade union has been created in the mid-nineties (1990). I can say with confidence that in Ukraine always there was a neglect to small-scale business. Through large business there are recoils, the veiled and dirty process of formation of rich businessmen round the markets prospers. The scheme such - arises certain structure "X" which offers the businessmen working in the market, to enclose on 500 dollars «in development», then it will credit their places and sells them already to structure "Y". That is included into relations with the authorities, raises additional money - «write the receipt that you give this money». And here already with trading take on 3600 dollars «on arrangement of pavilions». Then to businessmen suggest to conclude the contract - but at all for a year, and all for three months. Then structure Igrek sells the market to the new owner, more often any deputy, and such process goes on all country. Resistance attempts, as a rule, in what don't result - people intimidate.

All people hoped very much for Orange revolution, you know, how it was supported by small-scale business. Certainly, serious and deep changes can't quickly pass. The new command should come.

In due time we have offered the law on fight against corruption, rigid enough, it have accepted, but have emasculated. New, more rigid law on fight against corruption which would enter an interdiction to occupy administrative posts for the officials who have got on corruption actions should be accepted.

 

Is the corruption in Ukraine a system element of the car of the power or defect which can be at desire to correct?

Certainly, it is a system element. Now corruption in Ukraine prospers. I will give an example. We have a boarding house in the Odessa area so there the militia has beaten out to itself coast of five kilometers, and has fenced with its concrete fence, having cut off from the sea some boarding houses. Minister Lutsenko has told - my employees should have a rest, and all. Has reached that there began to wash away coast and if directors of boarding houses haven't interfered, them in due course simply would wash off.

But for that case that they began to resist to the official arbitrariness, to one boarding house have burned some small houses. Scandal has burst fair and what consequences for local officials are ? Any. The head of regional council and remained on a place. So it is directors, they have united and have shown resistance. And what businessmen do? They don't want to struggle, money in something to put. It it not on forces. Even the most insignificant official is very difficult for overcoming - I tell it with skill. As a result those who struggles, lose work and then go, damning trade union.

Measures on fight against corruption are necessary - first of all the new legislation, it is necessary to raise salaries of workers of militia that they didn't earn to themselves on life, beating out money from small business. However also it is necessary and to raise legal literacy of the population. Only units from businessmen protect themselves legally, the majority prefer to go on ald to a path and had  to pay.

The path is vicious and in what good doesn't result. At first they pay pour , then more and more while can't pay any more - and take off from business. Recently to us one influential enough businessman into whom have driven has addressed. But our trade union is a legal structure, and struggle with an arbitrariness we can only lawful ways that we and have offered. And what reaction? Our businessman has preferred «not to lift noise».

However, modest successes at all of us are. We managed to beat out the known decree of president Kuchma about the simplified taxation because to spend the corresponding law through parliament couldn't. With Leonid Kuchma we had fine relations, but for example, all known mister Terekhin always was against such decree. And the reason that people don't wish to see a difference between large business and small.

 

There is an  information on which the average businessman in Russia, for example, spends for bribes of an order of 10 % of the incomes. What is the situation in Ukraine?

On bribes leaves approximately as much - an order of 10 %. And that short of requisitions, - when in tax administration force to subscribe for all their magazines, newspapers and other. All is here very strongly adjusted. If was to work uneasy now, with procedure introduction «a uniform window» registration and licensings procedure has become complicated time in ten earlier.

Also it is system. What rich persons have gone to parliament, in councils of all levels? And it even after parliamentary immunity cancellation. If earlier the basic motive was « the cutting » the state property, now - property repartition. Both in BUT, and in NCNU it is a lot of people from «old guards» Kuchma, they know taste of corruption, know how to gain money, having the power. They have thrown money in a policy - and have returned to the power.

 

In what the secret of such survivability of corruption relations consists in Ukraine? Whether this process of the most Ukrainian statehood threatens?

Meanwhile will to struggle with corruption system I don't see - below people are intimidated, and above understand that they only favourites. In the east of Ukraine councils are in hands of Party of Regions, and officials feel uncertainly, in the west they too don't have any confidence, especially after creation of a new coalition.

Unfortunately, people study in nothing, don't want to operate under the law. But without will of people will change nothing. This struggle isn't hopeless, but is very difficult. So, I know heads of the several enterprises who haven't gone on payoff. Them clamped, intimidated, but in due course nevertheless began to reckon with them. The basic problem at us at all in laws, and in absence of control, legal illiteracy of the population. It doesn't resist to corruption pressure. In Russia it is more than resistance. If the crucial part of business has wanted to order the relations with the authorities then we could begin demolition of the developed corruption culture.

Certainly, much depends on new so-called "majority" in the Ukrainian parliament. Now the investment climate, and anyway gradually improves, but there is a hope that the next three years - if they will pass without extraordinary elections, will impulse both for fight against corruption, and for changes to the best.

 

Andrey Maklakov has written down